Thread: Sigma Announces New 60mm f/2.8 and Redesigned 19mm f/2.8 and 30mm f/2.8 Lenses

Originally Posted by Poki

MTF data is worthless without knowing the measured lp/mm ... This chart might show 10/30 or even 10/20 lp/mm lines, which would make its performance not that good at all.

Second problem is - the 50mm 1.8 is faster, hass OSS and good bokeh - how well will this lens compete?

All sigmas MTFs are standardized using there sensor - mtf is 10/30 lp/mm and at wide open aperture.

compared to the 50mm
-Much shorter lens 62mm vs 55mm, but at the same time a longer focal length.
-the lens looks to be sharper at 2.8 but the 50 mm will most likely be not far off as the lens is sharp across the frame at f4. (waiting to see how sharp this sigma gets)
-OSS is nice but find it very rarely useful. I have moved away from using it, in 2003 I would say (1st VR lens 70-200) 80% images used VR now its less than 5% (not only is there no free lunch with OSS, back in 2000 my max ISO was only 800)
-I would bet the 60mm sigma will have similar bokeh to the Oly 45mm 1.8
-It comes in Black! The sliver is ugly and does attract more attentions.

sony 50mm 1.8 mtf

Originally Posted by ItsaChris

All sigmas MTFs are standardized using there sensor - mtf is 10/30 lp/mm and at wide open aperture.

compared to the 50mm
-Much shorter lens 62mm vs 55mm, but at the same time a longer focal length.
-the lens looks to be sharper at 2.8 but the 50 mm will most likely be not far off as the lens is sharp across the frame at f4. (waiting to see how sharp this sigma gets)
-OSS is nice but find it very rarely useful. I have moved away from using it, in 2003 I would say (1st VR lens 70-200) 80% images used VR now its less than 5% (not only is there no free lunch with OSS, back in 2000 my max ISO was only 800)
-I would bet the 60mm sigma will have similar bokeh to the Oly 45mm 1.8
-It comes in Black! The sliver is ugly and does attract more attentions.

sony 50mm 1.8 mtf

Just to make some things clear:

- Of course the Sigma lens is smaller than the Sony one - it's more than a stop slower!
- According to the MTF data, I don't consider it being much better than the Sony 50mm at f/2.8 (the MTF chart doesn't show the Sony at 2.8, however such lenses often get much better stopped down only a little bit)
- OSS gives you a three stop advantage. I personally also don't like using it (because you never can be 100% sure just how well it works in certain situations), but it is better to have it than to not have it
- The Sigma lens looks much better, granted
- Never "bet" about the bokeh of a lens ...

I don't think the Sigma lens is a bad lens, I simply cannot imagine it competing against the Sony 50mm. It's faster, has OSS and is proven to have good bokeh. Moreover, we don't know if the Sigma focus rings work well as they seem to have no grip at all, and this all for about the same price as the Sony lens?

60mm is nicer for portraits than 50mm for sure, but 1.8 is that much nicer on a APS-C sized sensor too. It'll be a hard sell for sigma.

Originally Posted by Poki

Just to make some things clear:

- Of course the Sigma lens is smaller than the Sony one - it's more than a stop slower!

The aperture is not the predominant deciding factor in lens length, that has more to do with focal length. Looking at the lens formula I suspect the "extra" length of the 50mm lens has more to do with the OSS. The aperture is definitively a larger factor as the lens gets wider.

- According to the MTF data, I don't consider it being much better than the Sony 50mm at f/2.8 (the MTF chart doesn't show the Sony at 2.8, however such lenses often get much better stopped down only a little bit)

your right it does not show stopped down to 2.8 but given the tests that we have like photozone we can kinda see how the mtf would improve at 2.8. and this is just speculation given the information we have to this date. I dont even think it will be head and shoulders above the sony @2.8 just a note that it should be sharper at 2.8.

- OSS gives you a three stop advantage. I personally also don't like using it (because you never can be 100% sure just how well it works in certain situations), but it is better to have it than to not have it

I always hate that line, I think of OSS as it allows 1/10 sec hand held (with a 50mm) not three stops advantage (but I understand why it is the normal line used, still the EV does not change). But no argument that it is good to have. There is a good read about how VR (nikons version of OSS) effects IQ here - Nikon VR explained

- Never "bet" about the bokeh of a lens ...

I don't think the Sigma lens is a bad lens, I simply cannot imagine it competing against the Sony 50mm. It's faster, has OSS and is proven to have good bokeh. Moreover, we don't know if the Sigma focus rings work well as they seem to have no grip at all, and this all for about the same price as the Sony lens?

60mm is nicer for portraits than 50mm for sure, but 1.8 is that much nicer on a APS-C sized sensor too. It'll be a hard sell for sigma.

I would bet on this lens bokeh bc the meridonial and sagital lines are very close together, so the brokeh should be smooth.

When I look at that focus ring on the sigma and think of the stickey. It just looks like a rubber that will grip, even if I dont want to be rolling it around on my floor. It does not mention rubber on there site so I dont know if it is rubber or not but...

Originally Posted by ItsaChris

The aperture is not the predominant deciding factor in lens length, that has more to do with focal length. Looking at the lens formula I suspect the "extra" length of the 50mm lens has more to do with the OSS. The aperture is definitively a larger factor as the lens gets wider.

A larger aperture always makes the lens bigger - and not only in diameter. And even if its only the OSS - there is a reason why the Sony lens is bigger - and I don't think this little size difference would make a buying decision for anyone.

your right it does not show stopped down to 2.8 but given the tests that we have like photozone we can kinda see how the mtf would improve at 2.8. and this is just speculation given the information we have to this date. I dont even think it will be head and shoulders above the sony @2.8 just a note that it should be sharper at 2.8.

It well may be, however I'd much rather have the ability to go to f/1.8 with decent quality than to being able to go to f/2.8 with a little bit better quality.

I always hate that line, I think of OSS as it allows 1/10 sec hand held (with a 50mm) not three stops advantage (but I understand why it is the normal line used, still the EV does not change). But no argument that it is good to have. There is a good read about how VR (nikons version of OSS) effects IQ here - Nikon VR explained

Of course you are technically right here. However, if you can get sharp pictures at 1/10 seconds where you'd need 1/80 of a second otherwise, it practically gives you a three stop advantage - as long as you shoot handheld. I can see the criticism - I'd never beg Zeiss to built OSS into their lenses because I want to get the best image quality in all situations (and honestly, I don't like having to switch it off every time I put the camera on a tripod), but especially at cheaper lenses, it's nice to have.

I would bet on this lens bokeh bc the meridonial and sagital lines are very close together, so the brokeh should be smooth.

When I look at that focus ring on the sigma and think of the stickey. It just looks like a rubber that will grip, even if I dont want to be rolling it around on my floor. It does not mention rubber on there site so I dont know if it is rubber or not but...

This, again, is technically true. But then again, the Sony 50mm is also exceptionally good in this department. I'm looking forward to a comparison. How the focus ring really handles will be interesting to see, too!

All that said, IF the Sigma lens costs more than 200€, the Sony 50mm is going to be the better bang for the buck lens, while the Sigma one looks much cooler and probably has a slight IQ advantage. Oh, and the focal length is nicer for portraits, of course.

But how will all this transfer into sales? I can see many customers choosing the Sony lens for the faster aperture, but I can see just as many users buying the black Sigma lens for colour-matching it with their brand spanking new NEX-6/7. Whatever, more options are always welcome - I personally just cannot justify buying a 60mm 2.8 when the 50mm 2.8 CZ lens will do all these things just nice - and the (hopefully) upcoming Sony 85mm 1.8 will own the NEX portrait department for now (or at least the near future ) anyways.

I think I might just try one of these....

Any updates on the release date? Any information on the improvement of Auto focus compared to the old models?

Sigma announced the price (199 USD RRP), which will probably transfer to 150 - 170 Euro / USD streed price. I think the price is okay - but we still don't have any word on availability.

I can't see myself going for the Sigma for the following reasons:

- I'm a bit of a bokeh/shallow DOF addict, and f2.8 in APS-C land translates into f4 in FF terms (for bokeh/DOF)...that's waaaaaay too much for me. (I've been shooting full frame for a while and my medium telephoto lens is a 135L f2, before that it was a 100 f2, an 85 f1.8, and some random 50 1.8s and 50 1.4s).
- Bokeh/DOF aside, f2.8 is 1 and 1/3 stops slower in terms of low light abilities...that could be the difference between having to use ISO 6400 or ISO 3200 (actually, a little lower...like ISO 3000, but whatever)....as we all know, a stop difference in the high ISO range can mean big changes in IQ.
- No OSS...I rarely use tripods, so the image stabilization could come in handy.
- I don't know what's up with that focus ring, but there's a reason focus/zoom rings have been textured and/or rubberized for the past 100 or so years.

I'll give the Sigma this...it has the design advantage...I love that it comes in black (I don't know what Sony was thinking with only releasing the 50 in silver) and the minimalistic design on the Sigma is very pleasing to the eye...but, I think, at a cost to functionality.

I wish they'd include OSS in these lenses. I love the files that recent Sigma lenses have been producing but 2.8 is a bit slow for me since I tend to shoot in darker areas.

That said, I'm curious on how this 60mm is going to perform. Probably pretty good.